by Travis Normand
October 26, 2022
Updated October 3, 2023 – There have been no changes to the body of the blog post; but comments below include additional information.
This past weekend, I was watching an Oklahoma State football game when I noticed they had a sign in their end zone that laid claim to the 1945 National Championship. Somewhere in my mind I remembered that Oklahoma State had claimed a retro-active title, but I guess I wasn’t aware that it was the 1945 title (which rightfully belongs to Army). My first and immediate thought was that any school that would claim a share of Army’s national title (retroactively) was either extremely arrogant, ignorant of history, or both.
Having said that, I set out to do a little research and figure out why Oklahoma State would even attempt to claim the 1945 title, and the following is what I found.
The first thing I found was the following article (at The Oklahoman.com) which I thought summed everything up pretty nice (emphasis added):
Why is Oklahoma State on an island with the retroactive titles?
Berry Tramel
Published August 23, 2017
TheOklahoman.comOSU won a football national championship last season, 71 years after the fact. You remember the story. The American Football Coaches Association announced a program by which it would honor with a retroactive national title deserving teams that played before 1950, when the coaches instituted the UPI poll and began handing out national titles.
The AFCA awarded OSU’s great 1945 team, which went 9-0 and beat Saint Mary’s 33-13 in the Sugar Bowl.
I thought it was a cool story. I generally like historical projects like this. Bill James and other baseball historians have done something similar, going back and selecting MVP and Cy Young awards retroactively, in the days before anyone thought of such awards.
The most tradition-rich sports in America are baseball and college football. Anything we can do to celebrate the old days is fine by me.
But there were a couple of problems with OSU’s 1945 title.
1) First was the season. 1945 was quite the unfortunate year for the Cowboys to claim a national title. 1945 was not a season in which any college football fan sat around wondering who should be No. 1.
In 1945, Army had one of the greatest football seasons in history. The Cadets went 9-0, and five of their nine victims were ranked at the time of the game. Six of Army’s victims finished in the AP top 20, including five in the top 13 and four in the top nine.
Army beat Michigan 28-7 in Yankee Stadium; the Wolverines were ranked ninth and finished sixth. Army beat Notre Dame 48-0 in Yankee Stadium; the Fighting Irish were ranked second and finished ninth.
Army beat Penn 61-0 at Franklin Field in Philadelphia; the Quakers were ranked sixth and finished eighth. Army beat Navy 32-13 at Philadelphia Municipal Stadium (later known as Kennedy Stadium); the Midshipmen were ranked second and finished that way.
Army’s Doc Blanchard and Glenn Davis finished 1-2 in the Heisman voting. They would finish 4-1 the next year. They finished 3-2 in 1944.
Army was not just the greatest football team of 1945. That might be the greatest football team of any season.
There were sociological reasons for that, of course. America was at war until just before that season kicked off. Most college football teams were short-handed. Most of the athletic pool was in the military service or had just gotten out. Most of those who remained on college campuses had some kind of military deferment.
Army, of course, had the same kind of players it always had. And it always had great players.
We can debate the fairness of such a season. Heck, we can debate whether such a season should even have been played, although I assume football was a great diversion on war-weary campuses all over America. But we cannot debate who was the best college football team of 1945.
2) Second was the process adopted by the American Football Coaches Association.
The AFCA did not convene a panel of historians to go season-by-season and award a national championship. That’s what a serious project would have done. Go to 1922, study the evidence as a later-day pollster would have done and award a trophy.
Instead, the AFCA opened the process up for proposals. It invited schools to nominate teams they felt were deserving. Then a committee would vote yea or nay on said team.
The problems with such a process are many. Starting with this – the AFCA acknowledged it could hand out multiple awards for the same season. In other words, if Army wanted to submit its 1945 team consideration, the AFCA could – and would, unless it wanted to proclaim its insanity – give the Cadets a 1945 trophy, too.
That completely undermined the coolness of the project. This wasn’t a project to go back and recognize overlooked teams whose only crime was playing before 1950. This was some kind of marketing ploy by the AFCA, though no one is quite sure what. Some have speculated that it was a fundraising effort, since those trophies are not cheap.
OSU’s embracement of the AFCA recognition is understandable. Those Jim Lookabaugh teams of 1944 and 1945 were great teams. And on a campus void of great football history, those teams should be celebrated. Probably haven’t been celebrated enough.
Mike Gundy talked last week about how OSU’s tradition still is in the building stage. How it’s a slow process to get the Cowboys mentioned as a perennial top-20 program, much less top-10, to which OSU aspires. And he’s right.
So the AFCA’s honoring of the 1945 team was rightfully welcomed by OSU. The university has placed a sign on the wall beyond Boone Pickens Stadium’s east end zone. “1945 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS.”
It’s not gaudy. It’s not overbearing. It’s not in huge letters on the north side of the stadium’s façade, where it could have been seen from Ponca City.
It’s not historically accurate, if you know anything about Army. But much of college football’s earlier awards and honors were not historically accurate.
I don’t blame OSU for putting on its best face. It’s like shaving before a date. Make yourself look the best you can.
There’s just one problem. No other school has taken the bait. The AFCA’s Vince Thompson told me Wednesday that no other school, in the year since the AFCA made the project available, has submitted a team for consideration.
Not Oklahoma, which had a powerhouse 11-0 team in 1949 but finished No. 2 behind Notre Dame. ‘
Not Notre Dame, which went 9-0 in 1948 but finished No. 2 behind Michigan.
Not Michigan, which went 9-0 in 1947 but finished No. 2 behind Notre Dame.
Not Army, which went 9-0-1 in 1946, tying Notre Dame, but finished No. 2 behind Notre Dame.
Not Alabama, which will claim any national title it can get its hands on. Bama didn’t ask for a trophy from 1945, when the Tide was 9-0, or 1934 or 1930 or 1925, when Alabama was unbeaten and untied.
Not Minnesota, which had perfect records in both 1934 and 1935 and also could use a little boost in its football pedigree.
Not Princeton, which has always taken a backseat to Harvard and Yale but which went unbeaten in 1933 and 1934.
Not Colgate, Michigan or Southern Cal, all unbeaten in 1932.
Not Tennessee, the only unbeaten team from 1931.
Not Purdue, perfect in 1929.
Not Boston College, perfect in 1928.
Not any school. OSU stands alone.
And that’s strange. That makes you pause even more than Army’s 1945 résumé. No other school has been tempted by the AFCA’s offer.
I don’t know. I asked an OU source why the Sooners didn’t pursue the 1949 title. He said it was casually brought up in conversation, but the prevailing theory was that the fan base wouldn’t be excited. I sort of disagree with that theory. I think OU fans, especially old-timers, would be excited about the 1949 recognition, because that was one hellacious football team.
But I wonder if schools just think it’s sort of silly. Maybe the respect for history isn’t as great anymore. Maybe they think, like I do, that while the result could be beneficial, the process is goofy.
Whatever the reason, OSU now shares a 1945 national title with Army. But OSU shares the process with no one.
OSU is like the guy who goes to a restaurant at dinner time and is the only customer. You start to wonder. Maybe the food’s good, but why am I the only one in here.
Why is OSU the only school that accepted the AFCA’s offer? OU fans will say the Cowboys were just desperate for tradition. But even if that’s true, it’s not any moreso than Purdue fans, or Boston College fans, or Minnesota fans. If you think Bedlam or Alabama-Auburn is a rivalry, you need to spend some time in East Coast board rooms, where Harvard, Yale and Princeton is a daily snoot fest.
Yet none of those schools asked for AFCA consideration. Only Oklahoma State.
“Why is Oklahoma State on an island with the retroactive titles?,” by Berry Tramel, Published August 23, 2017 at theOklahoman.com: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/columns/berry-tramel/2017/08/23/why-is-oklahoma-state-on-an-island-with-the-retroactive-titles/60580085007/
The article above is from 2017, and it pretty much covers everything that needs to be said. However, I found some other things that I thought were interesting and figured I would share them as well.
AFCA National Champions
As of October 26, 2022, the list of AFCA National Championships (found here) starts in 1945 with the retroactive championship awarded to Oklahoma State; but then jumps to the 1950 title which was awarded to Oklahoma.
I am not sure how the AFCA explains that their (1945) national title was not awarded to Army. I guess they start by saying that they really didn’t give a national championship in 1945; however, when they gave a retro-active title, the AFCA would also have to say that they felt as if Oklahoma State was more deserving, right? But if and when they are pressed on how they reached that decision (as to how Oklahoma State was more deserving), they have to tell people that Army didn’t apply for their retroactive title, while Oklahoma State did.
As pointed out in the article above, there are a lot of teams that could have applied for an AFCA retroactive national championship, yet none of them did (except Oklahoma State). Even Army failed to apply for the 1945 title; as if they didn’t need further affirmation from the AFCA for their accomplishment in 1945. However, I am also guessing that Army never thought the AFCA would be so “crazy” as to award the 1945 championship to anyone but them.
A Blue Ribbon Commission of Coaches
In the 2017 Oklahoman.com article, it says that: “The AFCA did not convene a panel of historians to go season-by-season and award a national championship. That’s what a serious project would have done. Go to 1922, study the evidence as a later-day pollster would have done and award a trophy.”
Now, compare the 2017 statement with what was written in articles a year prior in 2016:
“As for how a team can be awarded a national title 71 years after the fact, the decision was made by the American Football Coaches Association. The AFCA put together a committee of coaches to retroactively select schools who deserve the Coaches Trophy between the seasons of 1922 and 1949. Schools who felt they had a legitimate bid for the title submitted their reasons why, and the committee would then hear their case and decide.”
“WHY OKLAHOMA STATE HAS BEEN NAMED COLLEGE FOOTBALL’S 1945 NATIONAL CHAMPION,” BY TOM FORNELLI, OCTOBER 13, 2016: HTTPS://WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM/COLLEGE-FOOTBALL/NEWS/WHY-OKLAHOMA-STATE-HAS-BEEN-NAMED-COLLEGE-FOOTBALLS-1945-NATIONAL-CHAMPION/
“After gathering all the pertinent information and doing our due diligence, it is the pleasure of our Blue Ribbon Commission of coaches to officially recognize Oklahoma State’s 1945 championship season with the AFCA Coaches’ Trophy,” said AFCA executive director Todd Berry in a release announcing the decision.
“Why Oklahoma State has been named college football’s 1945 national champion,” by Tom Fornelli, October 13, 2016: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/why-oklahoma-state-has-been-named-college-footballs-1945-national-champion/
According to the CBSSports.com article (in 2016), the AFCA did put together a committee of coaches to retroactively select schools who deserve the Coaches Trophy between the seasons of 1922 and 1949. Yet, only one school was awarded a trophy, and that was Oklahoma State in 1945.
What about all the other schools from 1922 to 1949? Did the “Blue Ribbon Commission of Coaches” not find a deserving school in each of those years? Or did the CBSSports.com article forget to mention that the AFCA would only be selecting teams that apply for the award (and that no one else applied)?
There is also this story (or release from the AFCA) that was published on OkState.com (Oklahoma State’s official athletic department website) regarding the 1945 Championship, which read (emphasis added):
“At the request of multiple schools, the AFCA established a panel of national championship coaches to retroactively select Coaches’ Trophy winners from 1922 (when the AFCA was founded) up to 1949 (the year before the Coaches’ Poll was first published). That panel of coaches took information submitted by schools who felt they were worthy of consideration and used that data in the research and selection process”
(AFCA PRESS RELEASE) “AFCA Recognizes Oklahoma State as 1945 National Champion;” October 13, 2016; posted at: https://okstate.com/news/2016/10/13/football-afca-recognizes-oklahoma-state-as-1945-national-champion.aspx
I am dying to know who the “multiple schools” were that requested the AFCA to establish this panel and retroactively give this award. I am also dying to know why none of those schools applied for a retroactive national championship of their own.
Also, at this point in time, I cannot seem to find any other teams that are claiming a retroactive national title from the AFCA; which means that the AFCA did not actually sit down and go season-by-season, as the AFCA claims they did. In fact, they only gave it to those who applied for it, and the only one that applied for it was Oklahoma State.
(NOTE: If you are reading this, and you happen to know of any other schools that received a retroactive title from the AFCA, please comment below and tell me who they are; so I can update this post.)
I am sure someone will see this post and point out that retroactive titles (and split national titles) are nothing new. I would agree, as these are not new ideas. However, some make more sense than others. For example, in 1997 the AP and Coaches’ Polls selected different national champions (Michigan and Nebraska), resulting in a split national title. I have no issue with this, and in fact, I actually preferred the poll system of awarding national champions over the playoff system. I also don’t (inherently) have an issue with retroactive titles.
However, I do take issue with titles that are given without a rational or logical basis; that are given despite the best evidence and due diligence; and that are given via a process that seems inherently bizarre (like this one).
Over the course of college football history, certain polls have been given a lot more credibility than others, and thus their national championship carries more weight (see here: “NCAA Major Selectors” & here). For example, the AP Poll (and National Championship) has always been on top with the Coaches’ Poll right behind them. There have been many other polls, all carrying less weight than the AP and/or Coaches.
NOTE: See the NCAA’s FBS 2020 Record Book at: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/2020/FBS.pdf (recognized national championship selectors on pages 112-126; major selectors on page 112; final national poll leaders for the 1945 season on page 116).
No One Awarded a Title to Oklahoma State in 1945
Another 2016 article about the Oklahoma State retroactive title, from The Washington Post, contains the following (emphasis added):
“If you burrow into the vintage cellars of CFBDataWarehouse.com, a practice highly recommended, you will see that in 1945, 41 different services named national champions. Thirty-seven, including the Associated Press, chose the Army (9-0) of Heisman Trophy winner Doc Blanchard, Glenn Davis and Coach Earl Blaik. How much that owed to East Coast bias cannot be pinpointed, but one might guess at one’s leisure.
Three others chose Alabama (10-0), and to Alabama’s credit, its record book does not claim a 1945 title among its cherished 16.
One, listed as ‘Nutshell Sports Football Ratings,’ had chosen Oklahoma State (9-0).”
“Oklahoma State just won the 1945 college football national championship,” by Chuck Culpepper, Ocotber 13, 2016, The Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/10/13/oklahoma-state-just-won-the-1945-college-football-national-championship/
I remember CFBDataWarehouse.com and I even knew the owner / operator of the site. It is unfortunately now a defunct website, but I believe the research compiled on that site is still floating around out there somewhere.
Assuming that there were, in fact, 41 different selectors in 1945, 37 (of 41) picked Army (90.2%); while 3 of 41 picked Alabama (.073%); and 1 picked Oklahoma State (.024%). This begs several questions: (1) Is .024% of the then-current national championship selectors enough to claim a national title? (I think the answer is “yes;” but it comes down to how credible the selector is and how much you want to “crow” about it); and (2) who is “Nutshell Sports Football Ratings?”
Nutshell Sports Football Ratings is Ray Wait, who has a list of “Retrodictive Ratings” for each year. You can find his website here: https://wilson.engr.wisc.edu/waits/history.html. As you can see (here), Ray Wait has been ranking teams since 1970 (and not since 1945). Thus The Washington Post article is wrong, as Nutshell Sports did not select Oklahoma State in 1945. You can also see (here) that “NutshellSports.com” is for sale and is no longer in use (the URL’s sales price is $9,695.00). Finally, you can see Ray Wait’s 1945 Retrodictive Ratings here, and he does indeed have Oklahoma State listed as number one.
But unlike what The Washington Post article said, “Nutshell Sports Football Ratings” did not exist in 1945, and thus Ray Wait was awarding a retroactive, or retrodictive, number one ranking. Note that I am saying a “number one ranking” and not a “national championship,” as I am not completely sure that Ray Wait’s intent was to award any kind of “championship,” as he did call it a “retrodictive” ranking.
In any event, it is not uncommon for people to get this information wrong (like The Washington Post did); as polling information is often presented in a very confusing format. It is often hard to tell whether a poll was in existence during the year that it has named a national champion or whether it existed later (and awarded a number one ranking retroactively).
I cannot find any national championship selector that existed in 1945 who also had Oklahoma State ranked number one in its final poll / selection. This leaves only Army and Alabama with any real claim to the 1945 title; with Army having the overwhelming majority of the selections (including the AP).
1945 National Champions
Having said that, let’s review who selected who in 1945. The following is a list of teams selected as the National Champion in 1945 by NCAA-designated “major selectors” (as listed in the official Football Bowl Subdivision Records publication).
1945 Season
| Team | Record | NCAA Major Selector |
| Alabama | 10-0 | NCF |
| Army | 9-0 | AP, B(QPRS), BR, BS, CFRA, DeS, DuS, HAF, HS, L, NCF, PS, SR, WS |
| Ohio State | 7-2 | BR |
| Oklahoma State | 9-0 | BRC |
[Table Legend: (1) Italics = Retroactive Selector; (2) Bold = Human Poll]
In the above table, you will see the following items of note:
(1) Army was awarded the AP National Championship;
(2) There are 15 “Major Selectors” that either existed in 1945 or have given a retroactive 1945 title (some of these 15 are human polls and some are math/formula polls);
(3) Math/Formula Polls: There are 10 Math/Forumla Polls: B(QPRS); BR; SR; BS; DeS; DuS; HS; L; PS; and WS.
(4) Of the 10 Math/Formula Polls, 3 of them have given retroactive 1945 titles, while 7 existed in 1945. The 3 that gave retroactive titles are: B(QPRS), BR, and SR; while the 7 that existed in 1945 are: BS, DeS; DuS; HS; L; PS; and WS.
(5) None of the Math/Formula Polls selected Oklahoma State as their National Champion.
(6) Human Polls: There are 5 (of 15) “Major Selectors” that are human polls (the AP, CFRA, HAF, NCF, and BRC).
(7) Of the 5 human polls, Army was selected by 4 of them, including the AP, the CFRA, the HAF, and NCF.
(8) Of the 5 human polls, only the AP was in existence in 1945 (and the others were awarded retroactively);
(9) The only poll that selected Oklahoma State was the BRC (Coaches’ Poll); which is a human poll that did not exist in 1945, and awarded their national title to Oklahoma State retroactively (however, the BRC has awarded no other retroactive titles);
(10) The BR poll selected both Army and Ohio State (both as retroactive math polls); and the NCF selected both Alabama and Army (both were retroactively awarded).
NOTE: The above information (in the table) can be found here, along with the full name of each poll. For more information on the NCF Poll Split between Alabama and Army, see here. For a review of the 1945 football season, see here.
Reviewing the 1945 Season
As you can see from reviewing the 1945 season, Oklahoma State’s schedule and performance was not really good enough for national championship consideration, especially in a year that featured a team like Army.
Oklahoma State FKA Oklahoma A&M was a mid-major, playing in the Missouri Valley Conference (of which they were champions in 1945). In 1945, they went 9-0 and finished ranked #5 in the AP poll. They capped the season with a win over #11 St. Mary’s (33-13) in the Sugar Bowl. The star of the 1945 Oklahoma State team was Hall of Fame halfback Bob Fenimore. He was a consensus All American and finished 3rd in the Heisman vote behind Army’s Doc Blanchard and Glenn Davis. Fenimore led the nation in rushing with 1,119 yards, and he led the nation in total offense in both 1944 and 1945 (1,758 and 1,641 yards). For his career, Fenimore totaled 4,627 yards of total offense, and on the other side of the ball he snagged 18 interceptions.
Oklahoma A&M’s best game of the 1945 season was the 33-13 rout of St. Mary’s (who had a record of 6-2) in the Sugar Bowl. Their other big win was less impressive, as they beat an 8-3 Tulsa team by a score of 12-6 (at home). St. Mary’s and Tulsa were the only teams that Oklahoma A&M played with a winning record. Additionally, they struggled to get past a 3-7 Arkansas team (by a score of 19-14).
Keep in mind, I am not saying that Oklahoma State didn’t have a great season in 1945. I am just saying that upon review, it doesn’t appear to be national championship worthy (and I fail to see how the AFCA could disagree).
This is especially true when Army played 6 top 25 teams, while Alabama played 4; and nobody came within a touchdown of either team all year. In fact, the closest anyone got to Army was 3 touchdowns.
Oklahoma State was not really close to being a national title contender; and it is a wonder how the AFCA can think otherwise.
OnePointSafety 
TCU quietly applied to the AFCA for their two claimed title seasons and were awarded as well for 1935 (https://web.archive.org/web/20230323022639/https://i.imgur.com/FPDQCHi.jpeg) and 1938 (https://web.archive.org/web/20230323022621/https://i.imgur.com/NasXoEL.jpeg).
Very interesting about TCU in 1935 and 1938 (thanks for providing the information). However, you only provided links to a picture of the trophy and I am curious if you have any other information. I have searched but can’t seem to find anything about TCU being awarded an AFCA NC other than it appearing on the Wikipedia site. I know that Texas A&M has the same AFCA Coaches Trophy with a 1939 on it (but they have had a variation of this trophy going back for several years and I remember first seeing a small version of it back around 2002; and a few years ago the larger/full-sized version turned up). I was told that Texas A&M’s 1939 trophy was one that they had made on their own “just for the fun of it.” However, maybe the larger version was received from the AFCA after they applied for it as well? If you have any other information, please share and thanks for the note !!
According to the cited Wikipedia article, the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision Records book lists the Billingsley Report as having selected Army in 1944 and Ohio State and Army in 1945. However, according to Billingsley’s official website (CFRC.com), these selection years are reversed. The Wikipedia article now reflects a correction based on Billingsley selecting only Army in 1945.
You are correct; it appears as if the links (and information) have been updated and/or changed. I don’t want to change what I wrote above, as I want to preserve the information as I saw it at the time … however, these comments will serve to show the correction. You are right, in 1945, Ohio State was not selected and Army was the team selected by Richard Billingsley:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS
However, the confusion may stem from page 116 of the 2020 NCAA’s Football Bowl Subdivision Record book; as page 116 has a list of all national champions (including those from 1945). Under 1945, it states that Billingsley awarded national championships to both Ohio State and Army.
Click to access FBS.pdf
This same thing appears again on page 116 of the 2022 NCAA record book: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/2022/FBS.pdf
But, according to Billingsley’s website, it shows that he may have only selected Army for the 1945 title (and not Ohio State): https://cfrc.com/final-reports/national-champions-by-year
NOTE: This link has been updated to show that TCU and Texas A&M have apparently received the AFCA’s National Championship for 1935 and 1938 (TCU) and 1939 (Texas A&M). However, I have been unable to find out when these were awarded, and am not sure if there is any official announcement. Additionally, it appears as if TCU and A&M received their trophies sometime after Oklahoma State was awarded the 1945 Championship (but I will post additional information as I find it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaches%27_Trophy
Another interesting article related to the 1945 National Title:
(Current link:)
https://web.archive.org/web/20211230174412/https://tulsaworld.com/sports/college/osu/afca-member-explains-why-osu-awarded-1945-national-championship/article_81901939-ef07-5a8b-a9d1-7599e6f13a37.html
(Original link:)
https://tulsaworld.com/sports/college/osu/afca-member-explains-why-osu-awarded-1945-national-championship/article_81901939-ef07-5a8b-a9d1-7599e6f13a37.html
[The following are only parts of the article found at the links above]
“AFCA member explains why OSU awarded 1945 national championship”
by Kendrick Marshall, Oct 18, 2016 Updated Jan 27, 2021
“A representative with the American Football Coaches Association explained Monday why Oklahoma State was retroactively named the 1945 national champions 71 years later.”
…
“Gary Darnell, the AFCA associate executive director, said … that OSU and Army were the only schools that met the criteria for consideration that season even though OSU finished the season ranked fifth in the Associated Press poll.”
…
“Darnell, who played football at Oklahoma State in the late 1960s and was an assistant football coach from 1971-72, explained Oklahoma State got the nod over Army in part due to the AFCA using the Billingsley Encyclopedia of College Football.”
…
“In addition to Oklahoma A&M completing the 1945 season unbeaten, the Aggies — the team’s nickname at the time — won the Sugar Bowl in New Orleans over St. Mary’s.
Army, voted AP national champions that season after going 9-0, did not play in a postseason bowl game.
‘That probably was the difference with the selection group,’ Darnell said of OSU’s bowl victory factoring into the committee’s final decision. ‘That could have been the deciding factor. One played in a bowl game, the other didn’t. (A&M) played well in the bowl game.'”
…
“The Blue Ribbon Commission consisted of former Baylor coach Grant Teaff, longtime Georgia coach and athletic director Vince Dooley and former Texas A&M coach R.C. Slocum.
Teaff said last week the process of retroactively awarding the Coaches’ Trophy took two years to complete.”
…
“‘We (AFCA) own that trophy,’ he [Darnell] said. ‘We could give it to anybody. I’d like to think that this (process) is of the highest integrity in all of college sports. We wanted to make sure it was the right thing to do.'”
…
Good synopsis! Aside from the fact that Darnell’s explanation must be taken with a grain of salt (he, the AFCA associate executive director, played football for Oklahoma State), it was uncommon for teams to play in bowl games in 1946! Not many bowls existed, many football powerhouse schools forbid teams from playing in a bowl game, some conferences only allowed one team to go to a bowl, and up through the 1960s, it was fairly common for some teams to turn down bowl invitations!
Thanks for posting; and that is an interesting note about Darnell.
What a bullshit article. Completely ignores the fact that Army played only 1 road game all season, while Oklahoma A&M played 5. Ignores that in 1945 televisions did not exist, and most AP poll voters voted without ever watching the games itself. (It explains why a 3-2 Michigan team was at one point ranked over a 4-0 Oklahoma A&M team.) Also ignores how Oklahoma A&M beat St. Mary’s by 20, who had beat USC (Alabama’s best win of the year) by a score of 26-0. The AFCA has stated it spent 2 years choosing retroactive champions, much longer than the 2 hours you spent writing a hit piece without an ounce of research or critical thinking.
Thanks for your comment. However, just to clarify, I did not ignore the fact that Oklahoma A&M beat St. Mary’s (in the Sugar Bowl); but you are correct in that I did not mention that St. Mary’s had defeated USC, etc. Thanks.
There’s nothing more cringeworthy than being this confidently incorrect. You proceeded to ignore every objective fact while pointing out absolutely irrelevant factors that have nothing to do with the fact that 1945 Army is indisputably one of the greatest teams of all time and OSU’s claim is shameful. They finished fifth, buddy. Fifth.
Alabama, famously shameless for questionable national championship claims, finished second, undefeated with a superior season to OSU in every conceivable way and even they don’t have the audacity to try to claim the title. Third place Navy and fourth Indiana, both more deserving of a claim, don’t do it. Only the losers in Stillwater do, celebrating a title they didn’t win versus a team that would’ve rolled them effortlessly.
The AFCA did no work other than accede to OSU’s pathetic request to weasel their way into an entirely undeserved claim. This author has clearly and obviously established this, and sourced his findings. You are taking at face value the statements of an organization that couldn’t get any interest at all in its project and wants to look far more serious and respectable than it is. And you don’t have the intellectual honesty to admit you do it because you want their nonsensical “national championship” to be legitimate. Who’s the fool here?
You didn’t deserve a “thank you for your reply.” Your response is one of the most idiotic things I’ve read all year.
Let’s break down your rant. First you claim Alabama had a superior claim to OSU. How? Alabama had a single ranked win all year, and it was a 20 point win against a team that OSU’s bowl opponent beat 26-0. Oklahoma State clearly had the better win between the 2, so to claim Alabama’s season was “superior in every way” is ignorant.
Next, you claim Navy and Indiana have a better claim than OSU does. This is false. Navy was defeated in the regular season, and Indiana was tied in the regular season. OSU was unbeaten and untied.
You then spiral off into insults, further showing evidence that your argument is entirely emotionally charged and not at all based on reality or objectiveness.
You then continue to spout false claims and emotionally charged nonsense. An interview with AFCA members have shown that the process took over 2 years. It was not simply an “application and approval process” that you ignorantly are trying to argue.
In a time when college football was heavily regional, Oklahoma State proved to be the best in the Midwest, and dominated the top West coast team. Army did not play a team outside the East Coast. Alabama played the 2nd best team in the West and won less convincingly than Oklahoma State did. There’s feasible arguments as to why Oklahoma State would be crowned national championship, however you instead resorted to citing the AP Poll (which was finalized before the season was over) and spouting insults to make your case.
No matter how angry it makes you, Oklahoma State is the 1945 national champions 🙂
Dylan,
All good points, and thanks for posting. However, let me point out a few things (some based on what you wrote).
You wrote: “An interview with AFCA members have shown that the process took over 2 years.”
Do you have a link to this interview? I may have included the link in my original post, but I wrote that so long ago that I don’t remember and was hoping you knew where to easily find this. Thanks.
You wrote: “In a time when college football was heavily regional, Oklahoma State proved to be the best in the Midwest, and dominated the top West coast team. Army did not play a team outside the East Coast.”
Two things here: (1) Being the best in the Midwest does not necessarily mean they were National Championship worthy. (2) Your last statement is accurate but I would like to make sure it is clarified … Army played a couple of teams from the Midwest (e.g., Notre Dame, 7-2-1, Michigan 7-3, and 1945 Personnel Distribution Command Comets football team, 6-5). However, you are right, they did play these Midwest teams in New York (which is on the East coast), and thus played all of their opponents within the boundaries of the East coast.
You wrote: “There’s feasible arguments as to why Oklahoma State would be crowned national championship, however you instead resorted to citing the AP Poll (which was finalized before the season was over) …”
While I might not agree with your arguments in favor of Oklahoma State, you are entitled to your opinion. As for citing the AP Poll, it was the standard (or one of the major standards) at the time, and at that time they often crowned the national champion and finalized the poll before the bowls were played.
Further, at the time of the final 1945 AP Poll, Army’s season was over as it ended on Dec. 1, 1945 (and the final AP Poll was released on Dec. 2, 1945). Army was 9-0 on Dec. 1, 1945.
Oklahoma State played its last regular season game on Nov. 24, 1945 (at which time they were 8-0), and then played their bowl game vs. St. Mary’s on Jan. 1, 1946 (and were 9-0).
My point here being that the AP Poll is a credible source to use as a citation, and finalizing the poll before the season was over was not only common practice but Army’s season was over.
You wrote: “In a time when college football was heavily regional …”
While college football was regional (and arguably still is), I would point out that the AP Polls first 9 national champions (from 1936 to 1944) only included 2 East coast teams (1937 Pitt and 1944 Army). The rest of the teams (7) were from the Midwest (Minnesota 1936, 1940, 1941; Ohio State 1942; Notre Dame 1943) or Texas (TCU 1939 or Texas A&M 1939). In other words, it is not like the AP Poll was unwilling to crown a national champion outside the East coast in 1945 (as they had already done it 7 of 9 times).
Other Numbers:
Teams played with a winning record:
Combined record of each teams’ opponents:
Teams played that were ranked in final AP Poll:
https://tulsaworld.com/sports/osusportsextra/afca-member-explains-why-osu-awarded-national-championship/article_81901939-ef07-5a8b-a9d1-7599e6f13a37.html
From the article: “Teaff said last week the process of retroactively awarding the Coaches’ Trophy took two years to complete.”
2. Of course not, but OSU proved they were the best Midwest team in the country and then went out and beat the best Western team in the country by 20 points in the bowl. As members of the AFCA have stated, that bowl performance is one of the key reasons they were chosen over Alabama.
3. I understand needing to cite the final AP Poll rankings, but when the AFCA did not follow the same protocol when selecting the retroactive champions, it’s simply not a strong argument. The Blue Ribbon Commission factors in bowl games and the *entire* season of work in when selecting champions, which the AP Poll at the time did not. Which is why ridiculous situations like a national champion being beaten in their bowl game was so common.
4. Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree. Selecting any team other than Army after the United States won World War II would’ve been extremely unpopular, especially among a media service like the AP. To suggest there was no bias would be rather ignorant.
5. Have you looked at the 1945 rankings throughout the season? A 5-2 Michigan team was kept above Oklahoma A&M until they lost a 3rd time. A 7-1-1 Notre Dame team was kept above undefeated OSU until they lost by 32 points to “Great Lakes Navy” A Navy team that *tied* that same Notre Dame team that got blown out against Great Lakes Navy kept a #2 spot. See what I mean? Some of the rankings throughout the season were completely ridiculous and heavily indicative of bias.
First, thanks for the link. I appreciate you finding and sharing that.
2. I understand that the AFCA used bowl performances to make their pick, but that is a different system of selecting a NC than what was used at the time. We can argue whether the bowl game should have been included or not, but at the time, the AP Poll did not include the bowl and considered the “regular season” to be over. Going back now, and looking at bowl results may, or may not, yield different results but that just isn’t how it was done back then (and regardless, Army didn’t play in a bowl game anyway).
3. Of course the AFCA didn’t use the same protocols as the AP Poll, as it is a “competing” selector and had to use different factors. If it had used the same factors, it would have arguably come up with the same result.
4. You said you disagree (which is fine) but I am not 100% sure what you are disagreeing with.
Having said that, I really don’t think the AP Poll voters were sitting around thinking “Well, now that WW2 is over, we can’t really pick anyone but Army as No. 1.”
I am also not suggesting now, or in my previous post, that there was “no bias.” This is college football, and there is always bias (even if just a little).
However, regardless of how much bias there was, the idea that the AP Poll was biased towards picking an East coast team might be true … but they only picked 2 East coast teams out of the first 9 selections. So, like I said before, it is not like the AP Poll was entirely unwilling to crown a national champion outside of the East coast and therefore overlooked Oklahoma State.
5. I think the most likely form of bias that existed (or that affected the final AP ranking) was that of “recency bias.” I mean, the fact that No.1 Army (8-0) played No.2 Navy (7-0-1) on Dec. 1 (the day before the final rankings were released) was a huge deal and served as a de facto NC game. Army won the game 32-13 and there was no reason for anyone voting in the AP Poll to move Army out of the No.1 spot (nor was there any reason at that point for Oklahoma State to jump to the No. 1 spot).
Maybe the AP poll should have had one more final poll that was released after the bowl games? However, at that time, it just wasn’t done that way as the bowl games were not considered part of the regular season (like they are today).
However, even if they considered the bowl games and put out one more poll, I don’t see how the AP Poll voters could have justified moving Army out of the No. 1 spot (and replace them with Oklahoma State).
6. Personally, I cannot overlook (i) the fact that Army played 7 teams with a winning record while Oklahoma State played only 2 (if you count their bowl game; and 1 if you don’t); (ii) the combined records of Army’s opponents (48-22-3) compared to combined records of Oklahoma State’s opponents (44-42-3); and (iii) the fact that Army played 6 teams ranked in the final AP Poll whereas Oklahoma State played only 2.
Finally, please don’t misunderstand my comments here … I am not saying that Oklahoma State is not worthy of praise for its 1945 season. In the end, there was one selector (AP) that picked a NC in 1945 and it was Army. While there might have been other teams worthy of NC consideration (such as Alabama and maybe even Oklahoma State) one cannot say that picking Army was inherently wrong or flawed.
You are free to enjoy the MNC that was retroactively granted from the AFCA to Oklahoma State. I just think it should be done in context … and not at the expense of Army’s 1945 NC.
Here is another interesting article I found regarding the 1945 NC: https://www.tiptop25.com/champ1945.html
Both the articles really just echo the same arguments you do. “Army beat more ranked teams, therefore Army is better.” It’s again ignoring how OSU proved to be the best in the Midwest and the West, while Army played almost every game at home, had the luxury of an original #1 ranking, and did not play a bowl game which could have *actually* proved that they were better than Oklahoma State or Alabama. Again, Army was absolutely deserving of a national title that year, but arguing that the best team in the Midwest and West WASN’T deserving is ignorant
This is also very convincing: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/columns/berry-tramel/2016/10/14/osu-no-1-in-1945-what-about-army/60644369007/
One more interesting note: Besides Army, another school that could try to lay claim to the 1945 NC would be Alabama (and Alabama is no stranger to claiming many NCs). However, oddly enough, Alabama does not claim the 1945 NC and thus does not contest Army’s claim to it.
Apart from 1941, all of Alabama’s claims are either from the AP, AFCA, or various selectors from before the AP and Coaches Poll came about.
A co-national title from a single selector would be super weak in comparison.
1+2. But don’t you see how this makes a large part of your post irrelevant? If the AFCA didn’t follow the same formula the AP Poll did, why should the AP Poll be used to criticize the AFCA’s process? It makes your entire argument relatively weak.
3. Eh, a 7-3 Michigan team with 1 ranked win and a 7-2-1 Notre Dame team with a blowout loss to a bad team all finished above a 9-1 Texas squad that won the Cotton Bowl. This is why it always annoys me when the “ranked teams” argument comes up, there’s really no reason some of those teams belonged up as high as they were.
4. Not really arguing against Army being the AP champions. If I was an AP voter in 1945 I would’ve voted Army #1 as well. The issue is that college football was so unthorough in finding out who the true national champions were, (such as Army declining a bowl game against one of the other 2 undefeated teams), that it makes perfect sense as to why the AFCA would make a commission to award championships to teams who went undefeated and untied but fell victim to a lazy system in determining national champions.
5. Again, with games played being as regional as they were, and rankings being as biased as they were towards East Coast teams, it’s hard to pinpoint which teams truly deserved to be ranked as a top 25 college football team. Army likely played a tougher schedule, but their refusal to play a bowl game (or play outside of New York) makes it more tricky to truly determine.
6. I don’t at all disagree with Army being selected as AP national champions. How could anyone dethrone a team that was handed the opening #1 ranking and went undefeated? I’m simply pushing against the notion that a team that proved to be the best in the Midwest AND blew out the top team in the West, deserves the same recognition as the best team in the East. Army should be just as proud of their MNC as OSU should be of their Sugar Bowl victory and MNC.
I posted this before, but here is some more info on it:
It appears as if the AFCA may have awarded at least three (3) more retro-active titles (See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coaches%27_Trophy)
1935 – TCU (No AP Poll at this time; but consensus champion up until now has been that Minnesota won the 1935 national championship, at least retroactively): https://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs
1938 – TCU (Also the AP Champion)
1939 – Texas A&M (Also the AP Champion)
NOTE: The link to each of these three championships awarded by the AFCA (as found in the Wikipedia article above) are links only to photos of the AFCA trophy found at TCU and/or Texas A&M (with the year 1935, 1938, and/or 1939 on it). I know that Texas A&M has had a version of this trophy on their campus for many years going back until at least 2002 (so over 20 years ago). When I first saw that 1939 trophy, I was informed that the school had it made and it was not official (but that could be inaccurate). In any event, I am still searching for an actual press release, or something to that effect, from either the AFCA, TCU, and/or Texas A&M stating that the AFCA has officially awarded them a National Championship like they did with Oklahoma State. If you are reading this and happen to find this release, please post it here. Thanks.
After a quick search, I did find this thread on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1cww1uk/did_smu_receive_an_afca_national_championship/
The original poster on Reddit stated: “Following the long line of weird, unannounced recipients of the AFCA ‘crystal football’ national championship trophy” and then proceeded to post the following links:
https://www.stwnewspress.com/sports/local_sports/oklahoma-state-football-retroactively-awarded-1945-national-title/article_ad75f6a1-9cdd-5c4b-8d99-7d4e02092f87.html
The Reddit poster also asked if SMU had received one from the AFCA, as their appears to be an AFCA Trophy in some recruiting photos.
https://imgur.com/a/smu-coaches-trophy-crystal-football-national-championship-trophy-afca-blue-ribbon-commission-MVUc3Ym
The following was also posted in a comment:
Seen you mention that A&M used to have another trophy on display for 1939 before the AFCA crystal ball trophy showed up. Do you happen to have an image of that? Also, is there anything on display for A&M’s national title claims for 1927 and 1919? If so I would be interested in seeing.
Also, I’ve took a dive on trying to figure out AFCA’s process regarding the awarding of championships via the Blue Ribbon Commission, which I posted about on my website.
I have not seen anything on display regarding A&M’s NC claims for 1919 or 1927. I mean, in the summer of 2012, those years started showing up among lists of titles claimed by A&M, but I have not seen a national championship trophy for those years. In fact, there are no trophies for 1919 at all (that I know of), but there is a Conference Championship trophy from 1927 (and that was on display at some point). From what I can tell, teams in Texas don’t have a lot of trophies pre-1921/1922 (so a 1919 trophy of any kind would be an incredible find). Additionally, seeing that the 1927 championship is a “retro” championship, it makes sense that they only have the conference trophy from that season (and nothing else) as no one gave them a 1927 NC trophy that I know of.
As for your other points regarding Oklahoma State’s NC, I hear what you are saying and I don’t necessarily disagree with any of it. I think Army was a “different” animal, but then again, we have always accepted that fact and it has never really been an issue. Personally, I don’t like looking back to determine retro-champions b/c it creates as many problems as it fixes. However, I understand why people do it. However, you are right, if we remove Army from the equation, Oklahoma State’s claim is a little better … however, I still have a problem with the title not going to Alabama over Oklahoma State, as I would think they are the next logical choice after Army.
I also agree that James Vautravers at TipTop25 has done a great job covering the information related to the 1945 championship (as well as other years). He has a great site with a lot of great information.
I will try to post more later, but I have to cut this short right now (as I am at work). Hope to hear from you again.
Sorry for double posting, my web browser had told me this 1 didn’t go thru so I did that an abridged comment hitting same stuff again.
For anything honoring the 1919/1927 claims, probably figured any trophy would’ve been something created by the school (not uncommon, as I’ve come across schools having done up stuff for title seasons when trophies weren’t awarded, were traveling trophies, or were outside the major polls. Surprisingly, the 1927 claim by A&M would’ve fell in AFCA’s retroactive award window had they chosen to pursue some hardware for that year too).
I said, I tried figuring out AFCA’s process based on what I could look up regarding the BRC process, but trying to nail down what really would’ve been the things that would set a team apart is easier said than done.
No worries on the double-post.
As for the trophies, I should have clarified, as my original comment was in relation to trophies given in those years (which would have only been conference championship trophies). However, like I said, there is no 1919 trophy but there is a 1927 conf. champ trophy.
As for a retro-active NC trophy (for either of those years), you would think A&M would have made one. After all, if you are going to claim it, you might as well make one, right? However, I am unaware of any new trophy for 1919 or 1927 (made by A&M or otherwise).
I am a bit of a trophy “nerd” and really enjoy tracking down the old trophies and where they are located.
As for the AFCA’s BRC process, you are right, as it has been a bit secretive (as I can’t find much on it either). Personally, I think they are doing themselves a disservice by not explaining their thought process … but I guess that is their prerogative. However, while I might not agree with their reasoning or process, it would be nice to know what it is as I could at least read it and think “I might not agree but I can see that it is logical.” Instead, we are left guessing.
Seen you mention that A&M used to have another trophy on display for 1939 before the AFCA crystal ball trophy showed up. Do you happen to have an image of that? Also, is there anything on display for A&M’s national title claims for 1927 and 1919? If so I would be interested in seeing them.
As for why the other schools (SMU, TCU, A&M) never made public announcements when they received their trophies, have to believe it was b/c they had already claimed those for years & years prior to the Blue Ribbon Commission’s work in the 2010s.
Hey, thanks for the comment. I do have a photo of that other trophy, but I will have to see if I can find it. However, it was basically a miniature version of the same trophy (as the newest one is full size). As for the other schools like SMU, A&M, and TCU … you are probably correct, as there was no reason to re-announce a NC that was already on the board.